What makes a woman pretty in your eyes? Which abilities and virtues make her precious?
I feel that many men lost respect for women. Sometimes I ask myself whether women themselves, or the image that the media in particular conveys of the "perfect" woman, is to blame for this lack of respect.
Ich denke wahre Schönheit kommt von innen! Und jeder ist schön auf seine eigene Art und Weise!
What do you mean when you say "respect" and how did men lost it for women?
How is it related to being pretty or precious?
I would say humanity lost respect to itself.
And surely I wouldnt say that men lost respect for women. Rather otherwise. The whole "toxic masculinity" narration.
What do you mean when you say "respect" and how did men lost it for women?Respect: I think we all know how some - not all men - talk about women. Especially when women are not around. It is only about their physics and that they have "fun". They sometimes treat women like an object for their egoistic "fun". Or as kind o status symbol, like a sports car. For example, I do not want to have to dress completely different when I go out - only that my partner can use my as a status symbol. I do not wont to pe "presented" like this. -How is it related to being pretty or precious?
What I meant: look at the advertisment: almost lmost completely naked women. Almost always, almost everywhere. That obviously tempts you to concentrate only on the body. But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity? Is not moderate clothing, shame, decency ultimately much more beautiful? Who would like to see his own wife half-naked on big posters outside...?
These are my thoughts...
I would say humanity lost respect to itself.
And surely I wouldnt say that men lost respect for women. Rather otherwise. The whole "toxic masculinity" narration.
True somehow.
Respect: I think we all know how some - not all men - talk about women. Especially when women are not around. It is only about their physics and that they have "fun". They sometimes treat women like an object for their egoistic "fun". Or as kind o status symbol, like a sports car.Do you think that many men are like that or that it wasn't as prevalent in the past..? As far as I know, there are men who are gross when talking about women in older generations. At a point, it was even mixed to women being no more than a closet or a table, so you'd get both an object, literally, and a contest to get the most of them for men who could.
I do not want to have to dress completely different when I go out - only that my partner can use my as a status symbol. I do not wont to pe "presented" like this. -I think you are talking about another topic here if you are afraid to dress the way you want. There was no such problem a few years ago and morality police is something that is part of some cultures more than a characteristic of men or today's men in my opinion...
What I meant: look at the advertisment: almost lmost completely naked women. Almost always, almost everywhere. That obviously tempts you to concentrate only on the body. But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity?Admitting that all you think here is the truth, then aren't women lacking of self respect on the first place?
But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity? Is not moderate clothing, shame, decency ultimately much more beautiful? Who would like to see his own wife half-naked on big posters outside...?That's a kind of puritanism I don't subscribe to because I haven't grown up with it. I don't subscribe to the kind of moral policy you suggest as well through clothing moderately or experience shame because of her body.
While I agree that I find a woman who knows how to dress moderately and don't resemble to an inhabitant from Gomorrah, but most importantly behave in an elegant way, much more appealing to me, and while I can aree that saying everything is ok and all men will be absolutely civilized and won't talk poorly of women is a kind of dream, I don't care what others do or if they want to expose their wives to everyones like a trophy (which I can also imagine, because as a man, physical trait is a main characteristic in a partner we will look for, and having a very beautiful woman is source of pride).
Last but not least, I had the chance to hear some women talking about other women, and it's rarely so nice either... Same when some of them talk about men.
Respect: I think we all know how some - not all men - talk about women. Especially when women are not around. It is only about their physics and that they have "fun". They sometimes treat women like an object for their egoistic "fun". Or as kind o status symbol, like a sports car.Do you think that many men are like that or that it wasn't as prevalent in the past..? As far as I know, there are men who are gross when talking about women in older generations. At a point, it was even mixed to women being no more than a closet or a table, so you'd get both an object, literally, and a contest to get the most of them for men who could.I do not want to have to dress completely different when I go out - only that my partner can use my as a status symbol. I do not wont to pe "presented" like this. -I think you are talking about another topic here if you are afraid to dress the way you want. There was no such problem a few years ago and morality police is something that is part of some cultures more than a characteristic of men or today's men in my opinion...What I meant: look at the advertisment: almost lmost completely naked women. Almost always, almost everywhere. That obviously tempts you to concentrate only on the body. But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity?Admitting that all you think here is the truth, then aren't women lacking of self respect on the first place?
Also, what about men's body being showed? Like Oxiu mentionned, Didn't humanity simply lost respect to itself as a whole?But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity? Is not moderate clothing, shame, decency ultimately much more beautiful? Who would like to see his own wife half-naked on big posters outside...?That's a kind of puritanism I don't subscribe to because I haven't grown up with it. I don't subscribe to the kind of moral policy you suggest as well through clothing moderately or experience shame because of her body.
I grew up in an environment teaching me that if a woman wants to wear a bikini on the beach, that's perfectly fine and her body is only a body, and not a sexual object per se. Same, a woman wearing short clothes and having specific make up isn't necessarily a whore who want to have sex with any man. This worked fine in early 2000's still and it really starts to degrade because some people think that it's morally unacceptable to wear this or that clothe and that women who don't comply are no more than prostitutes who don't deserve any respect (and you'd see that is places where this morality police/cult of shame/harassment becomes really annoying, women don't dare to wear anything anymore but potato bags).While I agree that I find a woman who knows how to dress moderately and don't resemble to an inhabitant from Gomorrah, but most importantly behave in an elegant way, much more appealing to me, and while I can aree that saying everything is ok and all men will be absolutely civilized and won't talk poorly of women is a kind of dream, I don't care what others do or if they want to expose their wives to everyones like a trophy (which I can also imagine, because as a man, physical trait is a main characteristic in a partner we will look for, and having a very beautiful woman is source of pride).
Last but not least, I had the chance to hear some women talking about other women, and it's rarely so nice either... Same when some of them talk about men.
First, you are right. It is not a matter of epoche. Old men can be very shameless, too.
Second, I had a boyfriend who wanted me to dress very form-fitting outdoors. Why?
It made me feel like I was just a representative object. Like a sports car. At that time I thought more and more about what kind of influence clothing has on how people look at me.
If I dress very skimpily, people will pay more attention to my body than to my character.
However, I don't want to be chosen because of my body, but because of my character in the first place.
I respect that everyone can dress the way they want. Men and women. I am certainly not a prude. But I don't want to put up with those looks and sayings anymore that just make me more of an object than a person. I mean, I personally do not want to dress so little.
Certainly, I have a preference for elegant dresses, preferably from Paris or Italy. But what I love most about them is that they are simple, decent and give me a sense of dignity. Sure, personal taste.
I just wonder when you hear how the majority of men talk:
do they really prefer a scantily clad woman, a model? Or an elegant, but not scantily clad woman? What is really more beautiful?
P.S.: And of course, you are right. Some women do not have nice habits in talking about others, true.
Respect: I think we all know how some - not all men - talk about women. Especially when women are not around. It is only about their physics and that they have "fun". They sometimes treat women like an object for their egoistic "fun". Or as kind o status symbol, like a sports car.Do you think that many men are like that or that it wasn't as prevalent in the past..? As far as I know, there are men who are gross when talking about women in older generations. At a point, it was even mixed to women being no more than a closet or a table, so you'd get both an object, literally, and a contest to get the most of them for men who could.I do not want to have to dress completely different when I go out - only that my partner can use my as a status symbol. I do not wont to pe "presented" like this. -I think you are talking about another topic here if you are afraid to dress the way you want. There was no such problem a few years ago and morality police is something that is part of some cultures more than a characteristic of men or today's men in my opinion...What I meant: look at the advertisment: almost lmost completely naked women. Almost always, almost everywhere. That obviously tempts you to concentrate only on the body. But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity?Admitting that all you think here is the truth, then aren't women lacking of self respect on the first place?
Also, what about men's body being showed? Like Oxiu mentionned, Didn't humanity simply lost respect to itself as a whole?But who thinks about the fact that these women (similar to pronography) also have a soul and dignity? Is not moderate clothing, shame, decency ultimately much more beautiful? Who would like to see his own wife half-naked on big posters outside...?That's a kind of puritanism I don't subscribe to because I haven't grown up with it. I don't subscribe to the kind of moral policy you suggest as well through clothing moderately or experience shame because of her body.
I grew up in an environment teaching me that if a woman wants to wear a bikini on the beach, that's perfectly fine and her body is only a body, and not a sexual object per se. Same, a woman wearing short clothes and having specific make up isn't necessarily a whore who want to have sex with any man. This worked fine in early 2000's still and it really starts to degrade because some people think that it's morally unacceptable to wear this or that clothe and that women who don't comply are no more than prostitutes who don't deserve any respect (and you'd see that is places where this morality police/cult of shame/harassment becomes really annoying, women don't dare to wear anything anymore but potato bags).While I agree that I find a woman who knows how to dress moderately and don't resemble to an inhabitant from Gomorrah, but most importantly behave in an elegant way, much more appealing to me, and while I can aree that saying everything is ok and all men will be absolutely civilized and won't talk poorly of women is a kind of dream, I don't care what others do or if they want to expose their wives to everyones like a trophy (which I can also imagine, because as a man, physical trait is a main characteristic in a partner we will look for, and having a very beautiful woman is source of pride).
Last but not least, I had the chance to hear some women talking about other women, and it's rarely so nice either... Same when some of them talk about men.First, you are right. It is not a matter of epoche. Old men can be very shameless, too.
Second, I had a boyfriend who wanted me to dress very form-fitting outdoors. Why?
It made me feel like I was just a representative object. Like a sports car. At that time I thought more and more about what kind of influence clothing has on how people look at me.
If I dress very skimpily, people will pay more attention to my body than to my character.
However, I don't want to be chosen because of my body, but because of my character in the first place.
I respect that everyone can dress the way they want. Men and women. I am certainly not a prude. But I don't want to put up with those looks and sayings anymore that just make me more of an object than a person. I mean, I personally do not want to dress so little.
Certainly, I have a preference for elegant dresses, preferably from Paris or Italy. But what I love most about them is that they are simple, decent and give me a sense of dignity. Sure, personal taste.
I just wonder when you hear how the majority of men talk:
do they really prefer a scantily clad woman, a model? Or an elegant, but not scantily clad woman? What is really more beautiful?
I think You have just wrong perspective. Or point of start.
It will be always, mostly, matter of who are You meeting with, not "how to change these guys?".
At first place, I don't know why anyone would tell You how to dress. Sure, I understand wishes or advices like "I like You in this", "You would look awesome in that" but not if it means total change of someones style and Your comfort.
Me, for example, I sure prefer few specific styles, different from each other, but instead of expectations I just like if girl is sure of her own style, not trying to comfort anyone.
And first impressions are always about looks. Because You don't know the person in the first meet. When You see the guy what are You paying attention to at first? If You never talked to him yet.
Character and personality is the thing that keeps or distance us later. After some serious time we spend with someone. It can even affect physicall atractiveness, like: we didnt like someones look, but after we got to like him for personality, we perceive his look as attractive.
So... I bet You will be chosen at first place because Your looks will hit someones eye and taste. And after that, Your personality will matter.
That is, if You are not some public person that people can get to know via interviews or tv program, so they can have a glipse of Your character.
@ Oxiu
Thank you for your answer. Indeed, it refers more precisely to what I intended to ask. Actually, I wanted to know two things:
1. What makes a woman pretty in your eyes? -> physics, cloths, but also which character traits..? Just personal preferences.
For example, most men seem to prefer long blond hair.
2. What abilities are attractive? I am sure the most would say cooking. :-D
And yes, maybe it was confusing to add my thoughts about respectless men´s behaviour in the beginning. My fault.
I do not try to change anyone. I actually just want to find out how the majority thinks. What other opinions are there.
You asked: "When You see the guy what are You paying attention to at first? If You never talked to him yet."
To be honest, physical appearance is important for me, too, especially at the first moment. Everyone has personal preferences, I think. But I think it is because the appearance says a lot about character and way of thinking. If someone looks sporty, it is more attractive than someone who does not care about his figure at all and you can see it. And maybe I prefer elegant cloths to, I don´t know,extravagant, neoncolored clothing...
And yes, getting to know a person better and better can even change your mind about his/her looks.
First, you are right. It is not a matter of epoche. Old men can be very shameless, too.Like I said, for men, physical attractiveness is a the main factor when looking for a potential partner. It's not debatable, it is just the way most of us work whereas women who look for a long relationship will pay attention to resources first (fort short relationship, they also look for attractiveness in general). So, int he first place, you will almost always be chosen for the way you look like, even more if you meet people through an app, in the street, on some other places that aren't a club like dancing, painting... I personally see no problem with that, and it doesn't prevent one to go further later.Second, I had a boyfriend who wanted me to dress very form-fitting outdoors. Why?
It made me feel like I was just a representative object. Like a sports car. At that time I thought more and more about what kind of influence clothing has on how people look at me.
If I dress very skimpily, people will pay more attention to my body than to my character.
However, I don't want to be chosen because of my body, but because of my character in the first place.
Now that this has been cleared, maybe the man you were with wanted to show off or preferred this kind of dressing? What a man wants however is just a wish and you are the one who hold the power of decision in the end and if that man is too insistent, it's also in your power to say stop...
I respect that everyone can dress the way they want. Men and women. I am certainly not a prude. But I don't want to put up with those looks and sayings anymore that just make me more of an object than a person. I mean, I personally do not want to dress so little.Nobody will ever force you to dress with a rope in place of a dress though, and almost nobody would care if you hide your attributes, and I have absolutely never heard of people forcing others to dress lightly... In fact, the morality police goes the other way. Like I said, nowadays, it's not rare for women not to be able to dress with anything but either religious clothes or a potato bag that hide any bit of skin by fear of being harassed or worse.
Certainly, I have a preference for elegant dresses, preferably from Paris or Italy. But what I love most about them is that they are simple, decent and give me a sense of dignity. Sure, personal taste.
I just wonder when you hear how the majority of men talk:Difficult to say or to talk for most of men. I don't think we would pay much attention to dress when finding a woman beautiful, or let's say not as a main factor. Key factors would probably be the body type (hips, breast, legs especially), the eyes, the hair, the smile on her face etc at first. Character would come right after making some women shining even if they weren't especially attractive at first. I don't feel like the dressing code plays a huge role here except for discriminating a little about the character of women, following some stereotypes. In this regard, there are, for sure, some type of women I would never approach even if they are physically attractive, just because the way they dress match a social/behavioural type of person I don't want to be with and find unappealing, but I don't think that it's the clothes themselves that have such a power. Iw ould argue that since dressing can be an indicator of resources (be it financial or social), it might be much more important for women.
do they really prefer a scantily clad woman, a model? Or an elegant, but not scantily clad woman? What is really more beautiful?
@Lianshen:
Luckily, this relationship did not last long and yes, it was just his wish that I dress to figure hugging for my taste.
Of course, it is not a problem that men pay attention to physical appearance.
It is always interesting to hear how men describe their dream woman. I mean physical appearance, but also character traits and abilities. That what I actually wanted to ask. But I think it is rather personal and hardly anyone would share his preferences. 😉
What I heard: most men prefer long blond hair, shapy figure. Is it true? Would you personally agree?
And may I ask what do you mean by sources? Money, profession, intelligence?
And may I ask what do you mean by sources? Money, profession, intelligence?
I would summarize these factors with one word: competence.
What is total contrary to what... Idk, Sit Coms are showing us: goofy guys most of the time.
If You feel or know that some guy can give You security (physical, financial) it's huge factor. Or not?
@Lianshen:It matters of personal taste, but I remember seeing that blonde/light hair is perceived uncousciously as being youth, and long hair is very traditionally linked to feminity nowadays (while it also was linked to manlyhood in the past). I don't know if there is a biological/psychological factor for this one though. Personally, I do prefer long hair in most of cases, indeed.
Luckily, this relationship did not last long and yes, it was just his wish that I dress to figure hugging for my taste.
Of course, it is not a problem that men pay attention to physical appearance.
It is always interesting to hear how men describe their dream woman. I mean physical appearance, but also character traits and abilities. That what I actually wanted to ask. But I think it is rather personal and hardly anyone would share his preferences. 😉
What I heard: most men prefer long blond hair, shapy figure. Is it true? Would you personally agree?
As for the rest, on my part, I don't usually share my preferences on this topic and I find it, indeed, personal, but I beleive that, generally, men aren't too picky, for the best or the worse.
And may I ask what do you mean by sources? Money, profession, intelligence?Resources for most of species means access to territory and food, soa female loves it. Given our history, humans didn't escape it, but you can easily imagine that a woman won't fall inlove with a man because he has a lot of food (eventually, if he is a good cook, why not? uhuh). So by resources, I mean things like financial resources, social status, fame, but also intelligence or ambition, generaly characteristics that will either make a woman feel "safe" or believe in a man.
@Oxiu and @Lianshen:
Yes, I think you are right. It is important for a wife to feel "safe" with a man. It is way more important than looks, I think.
Maybe there is one last point I´d like to add. Why I would prefer to be chosen because of character and not because of my looks in first position: looks are changing with the age. Moreover, you can loose your beauty due to a disease or an accident. When your looks are the reason why you were chosen, what will be then?
